HPAC/ACVL
Hang Gliding & Paragliding Association of Canada
Association Canadienne de Vol Libre
 
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Budget 2018/2019
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Are you in agreement with the budget for the fiscal year 2018/2019, as approved by the board of directors?
Yes/Oui
53%
 53%  [ 66 ]
No/Non
42%
 42%  [ 53 ]
Abstain/Abstention
4%
 4%  [ 5 ]
Users Voted : 124
Total Votes : 124
This poll has expired.

Author Message
Tim Parker
HPAC/ACVL Member
Joined: 10 Dec 2014
Posts: 26
PostPosted: Sun Jun 10, 2018 06:15 pm    Post subject: Budget 2018/2019 Reply with quote

HPAC/ACVL budget 2018/19 - ENGLISH

https://hpac.ca/files/agm/2018/HPAC-budget-2018-2019-ENGLISH.pdf


HPAC/ACVL budget 2018/19 - FRANCAIS

https://hpac.ca/files/agm/2018/HPAC-budget-2018-2019-FRANCAIS.pdf


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Martin Henry
HPAC/ACVL Member
Joined: 10 Dec 2014
Posts: 30
PostPosted: Thu Aug 09, 2018 10:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Reading the budget, Am I correct to see that the Executive Directors compensation has been increased to the annual rate of $48,000? From $36,000 (net is a combination or pro-rate of the two combined)?

Thanks

Martin Henry
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Serge Lamarche
HPAC/ACVL Member
Joined: 10 Dec 2014
Posts: 37
Location: Golden
PostPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2018 12:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Martin, I read you complain about the expenses but you still do not vote against the budget as is?
Serge.
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Martin Henry
HPAC/ACVL Member
Joined: 10 Dec 2014
Posts: 30
PostPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2018 10:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Serge,

An odd situation, I have not voted, yet I now see the tally of the vote (which suggests I have voted)... I have not voted, and I don't know which way I might vote. (Oh my goodness, we may have a conspiracy?)

I need to first understand the facts before voting. And yes I'm not happy about spending even more on our administration. I don't believe this association can run without a budget, so I want to know more about this budget before voting.

Martin
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Martin Henry
HPAC/ACVL Member
Joined: 10 Dec 2014
Posts: 30
PostPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2018 10:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hah.... and then I post my response to Serge and the vote tally vanishes ! ... (I think I know how Serge voted).

Not that this old forum will be sticking around for long, I thing I found my way to viewing the vote tally without having voted was using the link created in the notification sent to me when Serge posted his response and linked through to the vote tally page after he voted....

Martin
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Nicolas Jones
HPAC/ACVL Member
Joined: 10 Dec 2014
Posts: 28
PostPosted: Mon Aug 13, 2018 08:20 am    Post subject: Executive Director Contract Review Reply with quote

In response to the questions here, the Board of Directors has prepared this summary of how we approached the Executive Director Contract review.

English

https://hpac.ca/files/agm/2018/ED-Contract-Review-2018.pdf

Français

https://hpac.ca/files/agm/2018/ED-Contract-Review-2018_FR.pdf
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Mark Dowsett
HPAC/ACVL Member
Joined: 10 Dec 2014
Posts: 9
PostPosted: Mon Aug 13, 2018 07:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I dunno...I am torn...

$48k is a decent income. Some may say too much for our only paid position. I am by no means saying that Margit does or doent deserve it....it is just getting up there.

Personally, as a pilot member, I dont see the need for someone to be there for all traditional business hours, especially for 'just' the admin stuff. However, as a school owner, I recently needed her help amd it was nice that she was right there to help when I needed it.

I guess the option I am throwing out there is sgould that $48k be split amongst different positions? There are many people that work hard behind the scenes for our association with no compensation. Would more people step up and help if there were smaller bursaries to entice them? Look at all the work the Pres, VP, comittee chairs, insurance liaison, legal council do and don't get anything (that I am aware) for.

I seem to recall at one point in recent history the other paid position was the newsletter editor. I think that position was eliminated and rolled into the ED position. I feel the association could use some help with better communication with its members on projects which goes along with a modern social media liaison position.
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Martin Henry
HPAC/ACVL Member
Joined: 10 Dec 2014
Posts: 30
PostPosted: Mon Aug 13, 2018 11:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Given the ever inflating costs and lack of consultation regarding the expansion of the roll of the Executive Director, I have decided to vote against this budget.

The BOD should have provided the membership a comprehensive proposal that defined the purpose and scope of the Executive directors position prior to budgeting and approving Executive directors compensation. For more than 10 years we have watched this position morph without consultation.

Martin Henry
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Russell Fretenburg
HPAC/ACVL Member
Joined: 10 Dec 2014
Posts: 3
PostPosted: Mon Aug 13, 2018 11:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Martin Henry wrote:
Hah.... and then I post my response to Serge and the vote tally vanishes ! ... (I think I know how Serge voted).

Not that this old forum will be sticking around for long, I thing I found my way to viewing the vote tally without having voted was using the link created in the notification sent to me when Serge posted his response and linked through to the vote tally page after he voted....

Martin


If you want to see the voting results you only have to look at the forum without being logged in. It shows a results summary and below that is a link with details. If you click on it it shows you who has voted and which way they voted. Should this be public information for the world to see?

Like this: https://www.hpac.ca/forum/vote_manage.php?vote_id=225
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Randy Parkin
HPAC/ACVL Member
Joined: 10 Dec 2014
Posts: 10
PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2018 10:38 am    Post subject: ED Salary Reply with quote

To Mark's points (above) re ED compensation…

"I dunno...I am torn... "

I wasn't torn on arrival at the BoD - I was definitely against any increase in ED compensation. However, after reviewing the information presented regarding duties and compensation for similar positions elsewhere, and considering the evolving nature of our organization, my mind was changed to support an increase.

"$48k is a decent income. Some may say too much for our only paid position. I am by no means saying that Margit does or doent deserve it....it is just getting up there."

It is a decent income, but isn't an excessive income. For my own decision on this, I have to take Margit out of the mix. This isn't personal, not about how she does the job. It's a business decision about what is fair for the work to be done and the conditions in which it is done. Takes only a few seconds to Google average salaries in Vancouver. If you look at an Office Admin role, probably understating our expectations for ED of HPAC, info I saw says average salary is $40,000+. Unlike the usual salaried individual, our ED has been expected to provide their own office space, equipment, etc., and receives no employee benefits as a contractor. To hire the equivalent on salary in a "real" job in Vancouver, you'd probably be looking at much more of a hit on the bottom-line, at least 50% more in real costs, and probably much more.

"Personally, as a pilot member, I dont see the need for someone to be there for all traditional business hours, especially for 'just' the admin stuff. However, as a school owner, I recently needed her help amd it was nice that she was right there to help when I needed it."

The ED job isn't a "traditional business hours" job. My exposure to the ED ramps up tremendously during the Willi, and most of that happens on the weekend and early morning before flying. Our community doesn't do business 9 to 5. We do it when we can, at our convenience, when we're not at work, on the hill, waiting to fly. At those times, we might not be at our best in terms of patience or concern for the bureaucracy and detail that has crept into our sport because of liability, insurance and regulatory issues. Personally, I hate that crap, but appreciate someone else being patient enough to work through it with me. And that is a big part of the ED's role.

"I guess the option I am throwing out there is sgould that $48k be split amongst different positions? There are many people that work hard behind the scenes for our association with no compensation. Would more people step up and help if there were smaller bursaries to entice them? Look at all the work the Pres, VP, comittee chairs, insurance liaison, legal council do and don't get anything (that I am aware) for."


Couldn't agree more - there are lots of people doing work for free in this association that get no compensation, and often little recognition or appreciation. But spreading the proposed ED compensation amongst a few of those folks would not in my opinion do much to change what those people do. We're volunteers for our own reasons, not for the pay. Reducing the ED compensation to spread it around would though reduce our prospects of finding a good person to fill the role of ED competently, doing the kind of work most of us volunteers do not and would not want to do.

"I seem to recall at one point in recent history the other paid position was the newsletter editor. I think that position was eliminated and rolled into the ED position. I feel the association could use some help with better communication with its members on projects which goes along with a modern social media liaison position."

With limited resources, it is a matter of exposure and priorities. Right now, we need an ED doing that job well. That's where the more immediate risk lies, in handling the day to day service, administration and even legal requirements of our members. We also need more effective communication with members - dissatisfaction is an important longer term risk to us all. To that end, I was asked to lead a new portfolio for the BoD focused on just that - communications. Am looking for advice and practical suggestions from everyone about what would be helpful and how we can do it. And if you'd like to be another of those unpaid people helping out with this, let me know.
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Eric Fafard
HPAC/ACVL Member
Joined: 10 Dec 2014
Posts: 1
PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2018 11:58 am    Post subject: Vote anonyme Reply with quote

Bonjour,


Je pense que ce genre de vote devrait être anonyme. Il ne devrait avoir aucun lien entre le choix qui a été fait et son origine. Nous pouvons très bien envoyer un lien via courriel qui ne demande aucune authentification, une fois le vote fait ce lien contenant le courriel du votant ne pourrait pas être utiliser une deuxième fois.

Merci

Bonne journée

Eric
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Mark Tulloch
HPAC/ACVL Member
Joined: 10 Dec 2014
Posts: 1
PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2018 06:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I must agree with Eric. Who voted- fine, but how they voted should not be a matter of public record displayed for all. Too small a community to start more conflict needlessly. Possibly one of the reasons the response rate is so low.
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Marc Coulombe
HPAC/ACVL Member
Joined: 12 Oct 2017
Posts: 1
PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2018 07:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bonjour,

Je suis effectivement d'accord avec Eric et Mark.
Ce vote devrait être anonyme et je connais personnellement des gens qui n'iront pas voté étant donné que les résultat sont publique

Marc
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Suzanne Francoeur
HPAC/ACVL Member
Joined: 10 Dec 2014
Posts: 6
PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2018 07:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Je crois également que les votes devraient être anonymes.

Merci.
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Tom Dupree
HPAC/ACVL Member
Joined: 14 Sep 2017
Posts: 1
PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2018 09:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

we really have to pay GST on salaries as a non profit, but not collect it on memberships? The tax code in this country is bonkers.
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Remy Guignard
HPAC/ACVL Member
Joined: 30 Oct 2016
Posts: 4
PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2018 10:03 pm    Post subject: ASSEMBLEE ANNUELLE DES DIRECTEURS Reply with quote

Quel est le but de l'ASSEMBLEE ANNUELLE DES DIRECTEURS? A-t-elle besoin de 13 000 dollars?

Merci pour la réponse

What is the purpose of the ANNUAL DIRECTOR'S MEETING? Does it need 13 000 dollars?

Thank for the anwser
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Serge Lamarche
HPAC/ACVL Member
Joined: 10 Dec 2014
Posts: 37
Location: Golden
PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2018 10:25 pm    Post subject: They wouldn't pay - Ils ne payeraient pas Reply with quote

Easy for the BoD to pay this and that and get some while there. If it was their business, they would never spend half they do. $48000 for a job that was paid $6000 and was doing fine 20 years ago should have us pause.
And don't tell me Margit does a good job. She does not at all! Its recompensing incompetence, her increase.
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Facile pour le conseil administratif de payer ceci et cela et s'en garder aussi. Si c'était leur commerce, ils ne dépenseraient pas la moitié de ce qu'ils font. $48000 pourun emploi qui était payée $6000 et fonctionnait bien il y a 20 ans devrait nous faire réfléchir.
Et ne me dites pas que Margit fait du bon travail. Pas du tout! C'est récompenser son incompétence, son augmentation.
-----
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Mark Carter
HPAC/ACVL Member
Joined: 28 Jan 2015
Posts: 4
PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2018 11:20 pm    Post subject: Re: ASSEMBLEE ANNUELLE DES DIRECTEURS Reply with quote

Remy Guignard wrote:
Quel est le but de l'ASSEMBLEE ANNUELLE DES DIRECTEURS? A-t-elle besoin de 13 000 dollars?

Merci pour la réponse

What is the purpose of the ANNUAL DIRECTOR'S MEETING? Does it need 13 000 dollars?

Thank for the anwser


My thought as well. And why I voted 'no'. This feels unnessecary given the options that exist for remote collaboration.
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Russell Fretenburg
HPAC/ACVL Member
Joined: 10 Dec 2014
Posts: 3
PostPosted: Wed Aug 15, 2018 12:02 am    Post subject: Detailed poll results Reply with quote

Looks like the public display of detailed poll results has been disabled. Good idea I think.
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Jimmy Giroux
HPAC/ACVL Member
Joined: 15 Sep 2017
Posts: 4
PostPosted: Wed Aug 15, 2018 04:47 am    Post subject: Agm Reply with quote

Ok first I don’t understand the people who want this vote secret, it’s a budget???
Second I am not here to analyze the work of the ED, but the budget.

As a volunteer of HPAC as the chair of accuracy competition sub-comettee, I think that the money of the members should be wisely spend. If the salary of the ED would be increase or stay the same, either way, their should be clear employment description, mission and goal so that the members can evaluate the ED performance. I know for a fact that many people would be happy to take that position with the current salary. personally I would give the money that money to the ED if we were a reconized sport in Canada which would mean that we got 200000$ annually if we were a reconized sport and the way to do it is to apply by filling the proper application, which I think it should be the priority of HPAC and the ED. To me a person it is the only way forward to get our sport develop in Canada. I have brought this to the ED in the pass and the answer was that it is too hard or complicated??? So that is one of my reason for my negative vote.

I also understand the the 13000$ for the BOD is a perk for being a volunteer and have nothing agains it but it should be arrange in a way that it benefit the members also, ie; the BOD could arrange their annual meeting in coordination with organiseing the annual HPAC/ACVL meet/ festival where they could do their meeting, which is intensive and some kind of event for pilots like advance clinic or competition so that this perk would be easily swallowed buy the members. Otherwise run the meeting with online meeting app like we do with the FAI CIVL working group that o am also part of and have solve many issue and re-right many rules from the paragliding rulebooks. My second reason of my negative vote.

HPAC/ACVL is one of the oldest paragliding associations in the world and still we only have just over 1000 members. We still do not have a proper curriculum for teaching. Still do not have a pilots manual. Still do not push for a national growth of Instructor specially in the mid, Far East and northern Canada. We demand SIV certification from advance pilots and instructor/ tandemist but do not have any curriculum or certified instructor to do so and all this after more than 40 years of free flight in Canada and that is my 3rd reason that I do not accept this budget as I believe that our fund and the orientation of our is association are not use/define to solved these pressing issues.

In no way I am pointing finger at one individual, I just believe that our mission and goals are not really define or if they are, they should be re-visited to address the prosperity of our sport and association. A lot of great work has been done to get where we are and I am so glad and thankful to all who have been involved but I believe that it is now time for re-assessment of what should be the happening for our association if we want to be still present in 40 years.

Thanks for reading and I look forward to your constructive reply.

JIMBO
who does not need to hide his response as this is how we discuss and grow in prosperity!!!
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